tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post8133452966515735753..comments2023-11-05T11:44:18.372+00:00Comments on 3D Military Art: Hands Off My Hobby - Chatter Behind The Bike ShedsIanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-4157481360560465232014-06-07T13:04:25.350+01:002014-06-07T13:04:25.350+01:00Excellent reply. I believe that the hobby is at it...Excellent reply. I believe that the hobby is at it's strongest right now, we have so many new and exciting products and rules that you can start something every month and still miss many another period/theme. I am not a fan of all the alternative history idea's and I think they actually are driving up the figure and rule expenditure average cost and when that bobble pops we will have ourselves a decline for a few years. I think it's a mix of period boredom and need for a quick from concept to game fix that is so far removed from the typical army based game. Not than many period themed projects have come about with Saga obviously being a good example of a historical version. I would say we have more alternative to historical rule sets available here and npw<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-5471497393082479712014-06-07T12:55:54.794+01:002014-06-07T12:55:54.794+01:00No I am not but now I can afford more I am less in...No I am not but now I can afford more I am less inclined to be make considered choices and I do need to address that. <br /><br />Would I be happier if my lead pile was smaller? Yes and I have started to work on that to bring it around, stuff of another post.<br /><br />Oh I have very little that I don't want, so not ready to sell LOL<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-50281052120402736592014-06-07T12:53:07.657+01:002014-06-07T12:53:07.657+01:00Overpriced does not worry me, a fool and their mon...Overpriced does not worry me, a fool and their money and all. However under priced effects other providers and carried to extreme would force more realisticly priced companies to cut back on future development. Tough luck for them unless of course the excess of cheap providers go the way of the wall as they priced too low and the other providers are also damaged beyond repair.<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-71970128114356805232014-06-07T12:49:02.116+01:002014-06-07T12:49:02.116+01:00I wonder how much ex GW players are like that beca...I wonder how much ex GW players are like that because they feel they were fooled or mistaken by their time spending on GW. I go back to the £ per play view. If you have spent£1000 and have had 1000 hours of fun painting and playing with your collection that's £1 an hour, not a bad rate eh? Add to the fact that in almost every case the cost of buying the figures against selling them when painted leaves you with a profit then how can you go wrong (if you WOULD sell them that is)<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-91426718340948825462014-06-07T12:44:55.062+01:002014-06-07T12:44:55.062+01:00GW have been going down this route so long and I d...GW have been going down this route so long and I don't see how they will get out of it. However it's so very difficult to downsize and accept you have probably had the best you will ever be and fall back to being a successful but smaller company. Eventually I expect them to implode and disappear. Only then will we see just how much they were doing for the hobby, that or how much it held us back.<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-6010783916115546172014-06-07T12:40:40.148+01:002014-06-07T12:40:40.148+01:00Good point, be interested in knowing if you get mo...Good point, be interested in knowing if you get more pleasure from your purchasing than you used to when you did more<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-56091654314615912362014-06-07T12:39:15.574+01:002014-06-07T12:39:15.574+01:00It's a good plan that corrects some of that bu...It's a good plan that corrects some of that buy buy buy then really think about it plans we tend to work to.<br /><br />The fact that we have growing mountains shows we have commitment issues :-)<br /><br />ianIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-41989186532788677632014-06-07T12:37:26.438+01:002014-06-07T12:37:26.438+01:00And neither should they. You put in the capital an...And neither should they. You put in the capital and risk it, your entitled to get return. Or put it another way if these guys don't put in the investment and take the risk we would not have had the choices we now have. <br /><br />OK some have gone further than others with Warlord buying up others and so protecting their position in the market. It becomes a worry when they buy to remove, so your favoured figure range becomes defunct when a company has no desire to re-release the range as it conflicted with a range that company produces.<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-90482799306572172932014-06-07T12:31:22.274+01:002014-06-07T12:31:22.274+01:00Sometimes making the transition to full time is a ...Sometimes making the transition to full time is a mistake few can keep it as a hobby whilst also doing it as a day job, the passion gets sucked out of it.<br /><br />ianIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-28395701419153076512014-06-07T12:29:03.131+01:002014-06-07T12:29:03.131+01:00The Fantasy side especially the player aids/scenar...The Fantasy side especially the player aids/scenario and campaign settings done as a hobby vary greatly in quality dependant on who does them et. In your case I can use at least one thing from each issue of The Manor and so are great value<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-35533438198092192392014-06-07T12:24:47.985+01:002014-06-07T12:24:47.985+01:00I agree with the take it or leave it for the provi...I agree with the take it or leave it for the providers you like but feel are expensive it is after all a buyers market.<br /><br />Take care out there and good luck on the lead pile reduction<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-77828786573042862882014-06-07T09:57:33.105+01:002014-06-07T09:57:33.105+01:00I fully agree about the painter's very few can...I fully agree about the painter's very few can charge what they should.<br /><br />It's all well and good being a labour of love but it's got to be sustainable for the good of the hobby. Someone charging low prices for figures and being able to do so means that other companies are forced to charge below a reasonable price making it harder for all to work long term. <br /><br />It's ironic that a hobby that attracts the higher paid also has to many of the suppliers working on really low margins that mean they will not have the same standard of pay or even close to it. Loki's comment about charging below minimum wage for his work is a fine example the work he does is master class and we pay buttons for it in comparison to it's worth.<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-84453736392959649552014-06-07T09:52:16.067+01:002014-06-07T09:52:16.067+01:00Actually if I had gone back and read it again I wo...Actually if I had gone back and read it again I would have been smarter changed one line to get across what I actually meant in one section apologies to all the full time painting services especially Loki and Kev as I was just talking about them before and did not do well at then separating them from the ones I was then talking about<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-37206474935565929832014-06-06T12:24:42.495+01:002014-06-06T12:24:42.495+01:00Interesting blog post. I'm a big believer tha...Interesting blog post. I'm a big believer that free markets deliver more efficient results. I think this principal holds especially true for the miniatures market which is the very definition of a discretionary good (contrary to my statements to my wife, one doesn't have to buy minis, hobby supplies and painting services - I hope she doesn't see this).<br /><br />There are several trends that are impacting the structure of our hobby<br />(1) The internet is reducing the barriers to entry by providing almost instant access to global markets, allowing consumers to become much more educated on what their choices are, and now via crowd funding adding fairly efficient access to start up capital.<br />(2) Technology with further increase the above trend by reducing manufacturing costs as the ability to prototype and produce via cad files and 3d printing will continue to both improve and decline in unit costs. While there is still capital required to enter the market, the amount relative to revenue will decline<br />(3) Local retailers are under siege by the above trends - their primary value add is access to customers for a product's producer - the value add of that role is declining as the internet allows manufactures to directly sell to customers and generate twice the margin than selling through a retail store (the retailer needs to take a cut)<br /><br />What's the point of my ramblings?<br />(1) Larger entities that have a retail store distribution model for distribution (GW for example) will struggle to grow the top line given more informed consumers and competition from lower cost / lower capitalized competition (Mantic). There only viable route is to improve margin via price rises and reducing trade sales in the hope that the % increase in margin is greater than the % sales loss due to price/demand elasticity. <br />(2) We'll continue to see an accelerating increase in new entrants who can now afford to "give it a try". Some will succeed, most will not, but all will nibble at the margins of more established lines (PSC's impact on Battlefront). From a consumer viewpoint of choices will continue to increase, but so will the risks. Look at Kevins and Andrews painting venture - they have a superb product and now have an instant global market to sell their services. I think their prices are very fair because I have a higher degree of confidence that their services will be delivered as promised vs a lower cost provider in a far away region who I don't know, <br />(3) More established companies will see more opportunities in purchasing smaller, marginally capitalized start ups who may have stumbled on a good idea vs taking the development risk in-house to come out with a new "killer game". I think we'll see more acquisition activity in this market rather than less - it's just more economically efficient. They also be able to add value to older lines through their more efficient direct distribution network (which is what Warlord is doing) <br /><br />As a professional investor (yes, I'm one of those nasty finance guys) I know that outsized opportunities are created when markets are in flux but one has to tolerate the increased risk. The same holds for consumers - I think we'll continue to see an increase in choice but need to be willing to give new ventures a chance - which is never a bad thing.jmilesrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17961624317410579611noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-42406751937746681412014-06-06T12:14:02.050+01:002014-06-06T12:14:02.050+01:00"if we were charged more for our figures, bui..."if we were charged more for our figures, buildings and consumables (don't really count against wargameing budget anyway) maybe just maybe our lead mountains would be smaller and we ourselves a little happier with our lot?" So are you unhappy with your lot?? :o) Wargaming is simple, buy what you can afford, make what you can't afford, sell what you don't need... seemplesSteve-the-Wargamerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07077311120172727690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-37270379320669046002014-06-06T10:21:22.274+01:002014-06-06T10:21:22.274+01:00I've always said that generally there is no su...I've always said that generally there is no such thing as "overpriced" in the hobby. What I mean by this is just because I won't pay x amount for something does not mean its overpriced, just that I won't part with my cash for it. <br /><br />Hasslefree is the example for me, there stuff is, to me, very expensive, but there casting is and sculpting is very very high quality. I rarely buy hasslefree figures due to the price, does this make them "overpriced" no just more than I'm prepared to pay. At the end of the day the people that run Hasslefree and other miniatures companies are not huge compaines with lots of money to chuck about and are, by and large, people like you and I. <br /><br />My problem with GW is that it is quite frankly overpriced, by a massive margin. You only have to look at their shareholders reports over the last 5 to 10 years to see that prices have gone up just to keep showing profit returns. Smilliehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00716663716859070170noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-76750775855504726542014-06-06T10:19:34.223+01:002014-06-06T10:19:34.223+01:00Andrew I will answer this straight away on reading...Andrew I will answer this straight away on reading as you misunderstood what I meant or I have written it poorly.<br /><br />What I mean is the people who do it as a side business do it at a lower than sustainable price for the Pro's like you who do it full time.<br /><br />My point being that we should pay more than we tend to do and often when we don't and go with the low price option it sometimes ends with poor quality finish, late delivery or worse still failure to supply. <br /><br />Full time painting services like yours in no way undermine the hobby, indeed you have been enhancing their products such as the recent post on the Fantasy figures and of course the Warbase Wednesday posts and work.<br /><br />Sorry if I caused upset as my point was just the opposite to what I led you to think<br /><br />IanIanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17113835961977211021noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-78555173068068853722014-06-06T04:37:10.556+01:002014-06-06T04:37:10.556+01:00I have done very few commissioned painting jobs as...I have done very few commissioned painting jobs as gamers are not prepared to pay anything near reasonable for my time. I don't understand when really good painting is cheap. <br />Moaning about GW (or any other company) prices is a waste of time really. You will either want it and pay for it or...<br />want it and not buy it because you don't have the money...or..<br />walk away as it that particular game is too expensive for you.<br />Many an ex-GW players have become like bitter divorcees who carry baggage and just can't give it up.<br />I enjoy my hobby and it's not a business for me. It's a business for those that I buy it from. I respect that. <br />Cheers and an interesting post. The Kiwihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06829184068503627810noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-42536890255204880822014-06-06T00:02:01.145+01:002014-06-06T00:02:01.145+01:00The vast majority of people don't have any pro...The vast majority of people don't have any problem with companies making lots of money provided they respect their customers and listen to their needs/wants. That's smart business and everyone wins. Where GW is falling down is they are forgetting that and pandering to their shareholders desires for a quick buck.<br /><br />When you charge top dollar and then deliberately change your rules on an increasingly frequent basis to enforce further purchases so people can continue to play with their existing investment, that's where you start losing customers and respect...Millsyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17580692168847505881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-9930684264321064462014-06-06T00:00:53.478+01:002014-06-06T00:00:53.478+01:00To me it's what I can afford, if I could affor...To me it's what I can afford, if I could afford to have my minis painted I would but with a change of jobs and finances I have less to spend and so things don't get bought. I sell stuff now to fund buying something but it's my love and it keeps me sane...ish.The Angry Lurkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01227314379603418332noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-80110670567849903472014-06-05T23:54:47.587+01:002014-06-05T23:54:47.587+01:00With reference to your last paragraph, since I dec...With reference to your last paragraph, since I decided to focus back on LOTR/Hobbit, I've been selling off loads of figures I will never get round too, and using the liberated funds to buy LOTR - since they are more expensive, I get less, so my Lead mountain is shrinking! Thats good right? ;-)Scottswargaminghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00581220877007982139noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-63827168801890796432014-06-05T23:36:10.102+01:002014-06-05T23:36:10.102+01:00When I was in Hong Kong back in '75 I naturall...When I was in Hong Kong back in '75 I naturally enough sought out appropriate souvenirs. Painted eggs mounted in little display cases were quite the thing so I bought a few. Just before we sailed, I came across a set I hadn't seen before and it was excellent quality, better than all the others I'd seen, so I bought it. Back onboard I confessed that I thought I'd probably paid over the odds for the set, but my Chief said "If you really like it and you're happy with the quality, then you've not been ripped off." That's the punter's lesson.<br />The wargames businessman's lesson is more harsh. If you think you can make a living from the hobby one way or another, be it full time or as another income stream, then you'd better be bloody sure you've got your facts right and that you'll got the wherewithal to make it work. Nobody owes you a living and nobody is going to gift you one. If you fall on hard times nobody on the planet has enough friends to maintain sales, but, if you're lucky and you've not run it into the ground, there's usually an opportunist who'll buy the concern off you - often out from under your feet at a killer price. <br />I don't have an axe to grind because this is a hobby to me, but it's a capitalist environment governed by market forces, possibly more than even the real world. Wargamers are notoriously fickle and easily the most 'fashion conscious' hobbyists I've come across. It's the suppliers (of whatever goods or service) who are most astute who will survive and not those who are just nice guys. O.K., I'll stick my head above the parapet: Empress Miniatures and Warlord Games (to name but two) are in it to make money and they don't seem too perturbed about it (mind you, neither am I).GaryAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06963552380378929829noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-76071818884799182602014-06-05T23:15:48.052+01:002014-06-05T23:15:48.052+01:00I have to work full time to support my work for co...I have to work full time to support my work for companies, mainly Solway and VBCW because Solway can not afford to pay me full time. I think that is true a number of companies including Warbases, as it is the day job that funds the hobby or the other job and i wish I could do the hobby thing full time and live too but thats life.PanzerKaputhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05068595006963872643noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-20489347014240603552014-06-05T23:10:35.532+01:002014-06-05T23:10:35.532+01:00I hear similar complaints from my section of the O...I hear similar complaints from my section of the OSR community on occasion. How dare you make money. You are a bad person. Screw that nonsense. <br /><br />And I love when someone says its a rip off. Stupid. It's only a rip off if they order a professionally painted mini and instead get a glop of blue. But if you know what you're getting ahead of time and you pay for it then it's a choice whether you want to pay it or not. Gothridge Manorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11371740532802642972noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3329903841574816313.post-16856385677500910372014-06-05T23:03:55.207+01:002014-06-05T23:03:55.207+01:00My lead pile diminished following my deployment. ...My lead pile diminished following my deployment. Some I have given to my kids, the rest are slowly finding their way into my established armies. With four kids, I don't have the time nor money to splurge anymore.<br />I'm also gearing up to retire after a couple more decades.<br />I do have a couple of projects running along. One is ACW focusing on Miners Creek and the other is the Peninsular War. Both are plastic 28's. I want to dive into Dux, I love the Art and fireforge is making some nice kits. I could maybe shoehorn them into saga! I'm really just idle on the new stuff though. Skirmish is so much more value for my time and money. <br />A lot of my SciFi forces have been built and painted into small fire teams just for skirmish and not the armies they were envisioned for.<br />I've bought some new stuff. Zombies, Cowboys, and Supers are what my kids want to play. GW is awesome and the models are beautiful, but I can't afford them. I'm less inclined with Necromundia, Mordenheim, GorkaMorka, and BFG being canceled. Thankfully other companies make troops, ships, and Vic's I can add to those rules that cost less. I have even begun buying modest rulesets that let me use whatever and whoever I wish. Although, that is easy without tourney play and in my own home! ;)<br />I am worried how Warlord has been snatching up independents and pulling them into one banner. I'm also leery of FOW when PSC makes neat stuff for less. Less is what I'm about. I've been building PDF and searching for the smaller companies selling inexpensive ( different than cheap) models. <br />There are folks I like and will patron. Crossover miniatures and Rusti, Stoziels Structures and Carl....I have to find my Conquest AmerInds so Loki can whip me up a "squad" for FIW! <br />I guess I'm more into finding companies that are passionate for the game and want my money more than the suits that want to squeeze the last penny outta me! Of the big companies out there; in my mind; GW, FOW, Warlord, and Privateer Press. PP is the only one with passion for gaming. Everyone else just wants my money...well if not mine, any one's will do! <br />Carl and Rusti at least get excited when they see how I use their wares! Andrew will, I'm certain, do an outstanding job on Algonquin warriors and be chuffed to know they are about to kick both ranger and marine tail!<br />david bromleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15373599516429004062noreply@blogger.com