Saka Light Cavalry

Saka Light Cavalry

Saturday, 18 August 2012

20 Questions - It's ALL Ray & Fran's Fault!

OK you will have seen a few of these by now so here goes (Thank you you gits!)

Favourite Wargame Period and Why?
This has changed a few times over the years with WWII taking turns as number one. But right now Napoleonic is taking centre stage, all the colour and history make it a great period to wargame. The ECW comes in a close second though.

Next Project, Money No Object?
I am kind of projected out as I have so many on the go. I think it would be the one of the ones I am doing now. I would like to expand all 15mm Ancients armies I have and many I don't to give all realistic options on troop types. That's a lot of figures.


Favourite 5 films?
Not in any order
187 with Samuel L Jackson (excellent small release film)
Assembly (Chinese film, great story and very graphic)
American History X (Edward Norton, very gritty)
Black Hawk Down (nothing needs saying)
Train Spotting (what can I say)


Favourite 5 TV series?
Band of Brothers
The Walking Dead
The Shinning (American TV series far better than the film)
Homeland
The Clangers (Yes really, loved that program as a kid)

Also would have loved this series of Hard Knocks just to see Chad Johnson get fired!!)


5 Favourite books and Authors?
Books
Lord of the Rings, it started so much for me.
The Wheel of Time series, even though Jordan ripped off Tolkien to an embarrassing level
Anglia Rediviva, written in 1647 about the 1645 campaign of the New Model Army, about to read it again.
With The Old Bred and Helmet for My Pillow for getting me into the PTO

Authors
Tolkien for obvious reasons
Max Hastings
David Eddings
Stephen Donaldson (even if his Covenrnant series was a ball ache to read at 16)
Stephen King

Greatest general? Can't be yourself (not kidding!!)
Alexander the Great

Favourite wargames Rules?
Advanced Squad Leaders, the best rules ever for WWII, yep it's a boardgame but the rules come as a separate book.


Favourite Sport and Team?
Easy, American Football and the Pittsburgh Steelers, go even further, favourite players Woodson of defence and Bettis on offence, both distant memories. Still can't forgive Neil O'Donnell that crap pass on the goal line because he was too sissy to run.

If you had a only use once time machine when and where would you go?
To the Battle of Edgehill. I am convinced that if the King had ridden up to the right hand regiment armed with just a sword and ordered the regiment to fight him or quit the field forever they would have quit. Then on to the next and the next etc. Total change of history.

Last Meal On Death Row?
100 year old egg but I would have to pick the egg. Ok more seriously? My home made Moussaka, Sour cream Potato Bake and my wife's Greek Salad and a bottle of Retsina.

Fantasy Relationship and why?
As corny as it sounds I am already living it though I did have a crush on Toyah when I was much younger.

If your life was a movie who would play you?
Mr Bean, no I am not talking about Sean and I do mean the character rather that Mr Atkinson himself.

Favourite Comic Superhero?
Never really into them so I will go with Union Jack Jackson from Warlord though I always had a affinity with Plug from the Bash Street Kids.

Favourite Military Quote?
By God Sir, it is very fine on paper but there is no such thing in the field. Said of Rupert's dispositions before getting his ass kicked at Marston Moor.

Favourite Fantasy Job?
Ruining Running GW,call it a service to wargameing.


Favourite Songs top 5?
That's a bit tough to narrow down and I'm a album man myself so I will go with them.
Welcome to My Nightmare by Alice Cooper
Sticks by Led Zep
No Free Lunch by Green on Red
Pigs and Astronauts by Kula Shaker
Heaven and Hell by Back Sabbath

Favourite Wargameing Moment?
Oh so many to choose from, but I will go with when I had a flat with Lee and we put on a massive battle that had commanders giving orders and the rest of us playing (Andy was the Umpire) and Lee had just but some bread under the grill. Watch my toast was his request as he went off to talk to our army commander (via toy telephones joined by a wire, yep they really worked) when he came back to see smoke rolling over the top half of the room he asked anyone watch my toast to which we all replied in a chorus Yep it's burnt! Priceless.

The Miserable Git Question?
Reality shows and I don't even watch much TV!

Well thanks a lot you pair of shites, that may have been fun but don't expect any thanks from me!!!!

Friday, 17 August 2012

6mm NapoleonicTest Drive

Managed to get another playtest of the rules again yesterday, this time two major changes. First it was against an opponent (Andy) and second we went large to see if the rules could stand up to something with mass (around 30 units per side). So we took this to Maelstrom Games as they have nice sized table.
I had a rough idea of table layout and it worked out roughly as I had in my head. A small town on the Prussian far left with a woods close to town with a farm and fields on his right. A few small hills dotted around and a large hill on my left with a small woods on one edge of the hill. VP's were awarded to the farm, the town and the large hill with a waggon each also worth a VP. So with Andy at start holding 4 VP's (town worth 2) and me holding 2 I was forced to attack.
We each gave orders to our formations which held all game such was our excellent planning. Orders can be changed if desired either the Cin-C sending a courier or formation commander using his own initiative. I held out a couple of rules that are chrome but these would work when added.

Andy had put all 6 Cavalry units on his left flank whist I put four on my right and four in the centre. My largest infantry formation was placed ready to attack the town with my smaller (but still large) formation was to attack the farm and defend the hill. Andy had gone wide on the right with his foot so it was obvious that as I attacked the farm I would be at risk on my flank. I also had reason to be worried about the Prussian Horse on my right as three of those regiments were Ulans with pointy sticks.

First blood though well to me as I forced a cohesion check on a Hussar Regiment which rolled a natural 12 for an immediate rout thus saving my Hussars who was at that point losing the melee. Justice was soon administered as I too rolled that boxcar!

Red means Rout!
Another case of looking to win the round turns into disaster. A hole appeared in my lines and routers do not come back! at least I had caused a drop in Cohesion (yellow marker) which can be recovered from if you stand and pass a morale test.

Mixed results on my right as the Hussars of both sides clash. We both take a two level drop in cohesion in separate melee's. Two levels of cohesion loss effect your ability to shoot or fight whilst you get a bonus in melee for having full cohesion. The rules are more concerned with morale than casualties, units fired on tend to loose cohesion (mix of casualties and loss of order through those casualties) and possible drops in morale. Melee is much more blood thirsty with cohesion often dropping two levels and morale dropping in a good number of cases.

I wanted attacks on towns to be difficult and fortified positions more so. Yet to try out fortifications but in the last game had mixed results in the two attacks I had. In this game it was a much clearer picture as a lot more units got involved. Here we have one attacking regiment thrown back in some disorder whilst the defender still took a lot of punishment due to the supporting unit in the attack (the supporter then automatically engages the winning defender in the next round of combat. I have the choice of trying to reorder my attacking regiment or sending it in again as is. The regiment on the right attacked the guns winning the combat with ease (guns in melee have huge disadvantages ad will loose almost all melees)


The bigger picture of the struggle for the town. Musket fire from the town had done little damage whilst firing into the town was doing me no good at all. Cold steel would have to be the order of the day.

Andy failed to form a couple of squares either due to poor rolls or my cavalry being to close, this allowed me to charge infantry not in square which was not pretty. Well it was for me, as I routed a couple of units though one Chasseur regiment was forced to retire until the formation commander joined them and brought them back and restored a cohesion level. These breaks gave me breathing space on my left and centre though Andy continued to move forward in this area trying to overpower the four regiments.

Not that a few routs in the centre could make up for this! Three of four Hussar regiments in rout and the fourth forced to retire due to it's formation being broken. The unit was still at full strength having just routed the second Hussar regiment but that means nothing when your formation breaks. Andy now had three Ulans and a single Hussar to attack the rear of my attack on the town which would be unwelcome.

In my impulse I turned my guns so that they could give that last Hussar a taste of canister. As the Hussars had already moved it would be up to who moved first in these two formations in the next turn. Both of us had pressing needs on who to move first (turns are played out similar to Impetus) and I really wanted to take advantage of the situation in the centre whilst Andy saw this as the must win area).


The battle in the town was far from concluded at this point. I had pushed a couple of units out of the town but in turn had others sent packing. Andy did a great job of feeding fresh units into the battle whilst I failed to set about recovering cohesion so had first lost momentum and then started to loose the fight for the town.


This was the breaking point, the defending unit routs in a single round a conscript regiment and badly mauled the supporting line regiment all for a single loss of cohesion. Attackers get a +2 for attacking into a built up area which makes the attack so much harder.


The battle twisted and turned in the town with the attack as units that had won their combats then turn to fight each other. In the background you can see two Prussian regiments retiring due to cohesion loss (white markers mean retire and they can be brought back) Also in the background can be seen a Prussian regiment that would in the next turn support the attack on my lone French Regiment.



Two fresh French Regiments make their way to the left of the town in preparation to attack from yet another angle whilst one regiment is retiring and another is close to retire or break so needs to stand and reform but with the Prussian cavalry on it's way it has little time to spare.

At this point I managed a fluke breaking of a unit covering the farm which would allow me a great advantage on that attack. The squares were now facing infantry attacks which would have a great chance of breaking them whilst the cavalry attacked units out of square. It looked like the farm would fall whilst the Prussians planned to attack my hill but with about even odds and I having the advantage of the hill and possible reinforcements as the farm cracked it looked to be a desperate grab. However the town was not going to fall to me, Andy had enough troops left to hold off most of the attacking regiments and his cavalry would fall onto my rear and roll me up as he had smashed the cannons after they failed in a canister volley to halt the charge and paid the price. Nothing was stopping Andy rolling up the flank. We called it there as a draw but in fairness given time I would have been forced off the table.


Conclusions. Well first up we had a bloody good time which was a relief as the game could have shown up such major flaws that it was unplayable and an early bath ensured. It did feel like a Napoleonic battle (the main aim of the rules). Andy showed that having fresh troops in the right position will turn the tide when the other player (ME!!) fails to do so. It had ebb and flow as each side took a breath and tried to reform and after a few turns is started to be really important what you tried to activate first.
Of course playing a big game also showed up more flaws(an intention of the playtest of course). We both felt guns need a bit more sting which is a simple increase of their firepower. disorder still needs a lot more adding to it as it's in the early stages of getting them sorted. The original commands need more detail and loop holes closing in the support order. I also want to try adding a bit of spice where the last formation to be activated does  not get activated making it all the more important to get the best units moved. We did a fix in progress of the Artillery receiving a charge, it gets to fire canister at the charging unit. It will not stop charges from better units but can inflict enough damage that you think about the attack a bit (artillery are removed if it does not win the melee and has little chance of winning). The same fix will be added to French V British for the renowned Musket use of the Brits, this should make attacks really interesting now! I also have to add a couple more columns to the fire and melee tables. Overall though far more of a success than I could have hoped for. Now all I need to do is start work on the army lists for further structure.

Wednesday, 15 August 2012

The Start of a Spending Spree & Finally Doing What I Promised.

I recently sold some ASL related stuff netting some money into my Wargames Neutral bag which has allowed me to go on a spending spree without any guilt attached. This makes it all the more enjoyable. I will report each item as it is received but it's enough to say they will supply a few posts all by themselves, though one will have to wait till Partizan as I will pick up the Baccus reinforcements then.

So through he letter box yesterday was one of the last purchases, this being some new paintbrushes. a fair few months ago a lot of talk about brushes was going the rounds with GW getting a bit of a hammering and such as Windsor & Newton getting big thumbs up. Well my style of painting and brush care immediately said no to the Rolls Royce of brushes but another brand got good press and whats more a price tag that is well below the average you would spend on brushes. This being Rosemary & Co. a British Company that still makes their brushes by hand and here in the UK. They are a Artist Supplier and their range is massive, most of which are useless to the figure painter. For my first order I selected 4 sizes of their Red Sable Blend which have been recommended on their website by a figure painter. I really don't expect these to stand up to my style of painting but I will be very happy if they do. I also ordered a single Pure Kolinsky Sable  (2-0) brush to see how that stands up in comparison to the Blended brushes.

I ordered 1 x 3-0, 2 x 2-0, 1 x 0 and 1 x 1 size brushes in Blended and the single 2-0 Pure, so the damage was £12.80 including postage. The Pure running at £3.60 whilst the the others were between £1.60 and £1.80 As you can see the order arrived in a sealed bag so no loose brush can get lost, damaged or the plastic covers can not come off so the bristles are well protected. This was also inside a padded envelope and a total cost of postage of £1

Well as I said I only got them yesterday (ordered Sunday night!) so only have a limited painting experience so far of about 2-3 hours. I just used the Blended 3-0 and a 2-0 but both brushes held their tip well and I think they hold more paint and apply it better than the Creative Models Red Sable Kolinsky that I have used to this point. Time will tell how well they hold up to use though. The CM brushes are solid work horses that can still keep a good tip even when worn down to far smaller points than they start with!

So what did I paint with this first outing? I had been given at Triples 13 figures all Aide de Camps in 10mm for a Napoleonic project that is being done by the original wargames holiday centre owner. He plans to put on massed Nap battles but to do so he wants a hand in painting the figures. I got lumbered given a bunch of ADC's. I have waited for some illustrations to paint them by, finally getting them about a month ago so it was high time I got on with fulfilling the promise.

I have started with painting up 4 of them, the rest all have their horses painted and I expect to get them all done over the next week or two between painting my own stuff which I have queueing up. Each one is a copy of a illustration so I hope they will be exactly what is expected. I will not be basing them as that needs to match the rest of the army.

You can see the size from just looking at the pop bottle lids they are sitting on. All four and indeed all thirteen are Hussar figures, Lee my mate has a mixed pose and type set of ADC's to do. I'm thinking I got the better deal.

The figures seem to be a mix of great detail such as the braid work on the jackets and hazy detail such as the infernal tack (not my favourite thing in the world to paint).

So far I have three base colours to work with but these buggers are colourful chaps so I will be using a very wide palette. I have found it easier to almost paint a figure at a time, very little work was done at the same time on any of the figures.

All of them carry muskets. I did consider filing them off but close inspection showed that some of them carried them so they stay.

These last two figures were painted together the most as the basic colour and much of the rest are the same. All figures received a wash of Nut Brown ink as I would 6mm. I could have used a standard wash and may yet try that on some more of them. Once I have done all of them I may well see if some infantry need doing and if so offer to help out some more. Just painting these thirteen would allow me free access to a game when he gets them started though I am not sure I will get to go. So if you want in on the act watch this space as I will be asking the state of play and if he needs or wants more hands on the project. Now I have started I am rather enjoying these guys, a different kind of challenge but it affirms we were right to go 6mm rather than 10mm for the ECW. For me 10mm is most of the work of a 15mm figure, sure it's faster but not enough to make me want to paint up a whole army!

Tuesday, 14 August 2012

The Other Partizan 2nd September

So in just a little under three weeks it will be Partizan, well the Other Partizan to be exact. In a way it's like my first anniversary back into wargaming. OK I had been painting again for a bit before the show but it was going to the show with Barry that got me back into the swing and looking at building up armies etc. not just painting up what I already had.

As such I will be going if I can swing it and that means placing an order with Peter at Baccus. I want more ECW and I have already mentioned the plans for extending my French Napoleonic Army. I also expect Total Battle Miniatures to be there as well which would mean more houses to be bought. I have plenty of credit in my wargaming pot based on some ASL related sales over the last month or so as well as tree units of ECW in 15mm I ave on e-bay right now with bids in place. I don't see myself looking to buy anything else at the moment as I have plenty of figures to finish off other projects.

Talking of projects, I have a game organised for Thursday and will take the opportunity to have a two player playtest of the rules. This will be the biggest 6mm Napoleonic battle I have tried in years and should either break the rules or supply good information on how they will work out. I am fielding both the Prussian and the French and expect the game to be interesting if nothing else. I will set VP's for different locations or objectives so here is hoping all works out well.

Talking of spending, I needed boxes to carry the figures to battle so nipped to Staples intending to get the usual A4 box files. I spotted some slim ones about half the height of a normal box. These were £5 each. Well I could buy three Foolscap boxes with plastic ends for under £9 which were cheaper or these boxes that were more practical and save on space. Well I bought 4 at £5 and a pack of the three for 15mm figures, well you can never have enough can you?

Still talking about spending, I also have been hanging my nose over the paint stands being sold on e-bay that hold over 80 Vallejo paints (not that I have that many, yet!) I probably will go for it as it will help keep the area tidy, speedup paint selection and help me keep an eye on just what paints and washes and inks and foundations and  er.... well you get the idea, but has anyone else got one?

Monday, 13 August 2012

VASL ASLeague Round Two

After a disappointing loss in round one I was keen to get a win in round two of this three round event. Winners are paired against winners and losers against losers and in the third round you get paired against someone with the same record if possible. Within the same groupings players are paired against their known ratings from the various ladders or lacking that via reputation or ROAR listing. This means in theory at least you get a fairly even match which in my case proved the case both games. In the first game I really came close to a win.

So this time my opponent was a lot closer than America in that he is an Italian who has a lot less years experience but has done rather well in his short paying period. He was happy enough to pick a scenario from my list and offered me sides. As attacking is my strength I took the Germans leaving him the Russians. This scenario is early in the Russian Campaign (23rd June 1941) near the Bug River. The battle is for an un-named village defended by  a fairly large infantry force (nearly as many infantry as I have) and a KV-1 I attack with 11 squads of infantry and three StuG IIIB the ones with a short barrel 75 and no match for the KV. Near half way point the Russians also get three T-60 light tanks which are vulnerable even to machine gun fire with a lucky shot.

I fired plenty of smoke to cover my attack into the village from the front whilst sending flanking forces to the north and south. These were to stretch the defence and allow me to get local superiority on the units that were not blinded by smoke.

Mostly the early turns went well with me getting into the edge of the village straight away, the StuG's firing smoke or HE as required. The KV did not challenge my SPG's early which I was happy about as they had little chance against such a monster. Things started to get away from me when I lost a couple of close combats and the Russians were falling back and taking few loses whilst I seemed to be paying to high a price. Turn 4 saw a definite turn of events as the KV started to hunt my StuG's and the T-60's ignored a half squad and went after the main southern flanking force. These were also under attack from an equal number of Russian squads, it looked bleak. I fired a MMG before being over run that wrecked a T-60 and a lone leader killed half a squad in close combat (he died in the same fight). The KV malfunctioned first it's main armament then it's bow MG. A second T-60 was destroyed in close combat as it had halted in the same hex as a squad of mine and they rolled 4 or less on 2D6. This was the start of such a run of luck that I was rather embarrassed. The last T-60 went down to a StuG with it's second shot whilst the KV was immobilised by a StuG and the crew failed a morale test and jumped. I passed in excess of 14 morale tests on the bounce, the odds of doing this is very very low. I had been careless with a StuG trying to get extra distance I lost a track and was left stuck in front of a building, at least it could protect a small area.

Then came the killing round. I had been forced into close combat with a couple of Russian squads at a disadvantage in both cases. One round failed to score a result for either of us but in my turn I was to win both freeing me up to capture many more buildings and put me very much in the lead. The only thing the Russian could do was try a few desperate charges to recover buildings which meant running through the open in full view of my troops. The inevitable happened, I rolled low and Russian squads were either broken or killed. I stole the win through a mix of outrageous luck and taking advantage of the few mistakes my opponent made and a plan that seemed sound at the start.

View of a small part of the battle field, yellow is fields of grain, dark green are woods whilst the light green is brush (broken ground) and the four green dots are orchards. All the buildings are wooden. Blue counters are German whilst the Brown are Russian. White large counters are wrecked Russian tanks. DM counters show units that are broken and under Desperation Morale (usually these have just been broken that turn or been fired on whilst broken or moved adjacent to by enemy troops). This gives the unit a +4 on trying to rally (most troops have a morale of 7 so it often means rolling 4 or less with the usual mods).

So now I am waiting for round three that should start in October and I hope I get an opponent that is as much fun and supportive gamer as the first two rounds.

Sunday, 12 August 2012

Battle For Budapest - 100 Days in World War II Book Review



Driven by recently playing a couple of the scenarios from Festung Budapest (the latest Historical Module from MMP for ASL) I revisited this book. It's been a few years since I first read it and my view of it really has not changed much with a second reading.
The Author lays out a fairly clear account of the events leading up to the encirclement of Budapest and then breaks down the stages of the battle leading with the Pest side of the siege first (Budapest was effectively two cities astride the Danube). This actually helps focus the reader on set parts of action, the time line can be slightly blurred but Krisztian Ungvary references key events to help keep track of events. With Pest falling before Buda it also made sense to use the reverse order of the cities name. The translation is for the most part very good making the reading of the book somewhat smooth. However the extensive use of Russian Names for the lesser part and the greater use of Hungarian place names around Budapest and extensive use of the names of Hungarians makes for a challenge in both reading them and remembering some of the people cropping up occasionally. Given that this is a human story as well as a history this makes it harder to empathise with the lesser characters.

Ungvary strives to put forward his view that this was the longest and bloodiest siege of WWII. To make this true he turns the siege of Leningrad into a blockade which in my eyes reduces the achievements of this book a little. The battle of Budapest is unique enough without fighting over the crumbs to be the biggest and worst. He also compares Budapest against the almost none existent battles for capitals of the rest f Europe. Berlin lasting two weeks, Vienna a whole 6 weeks. The western capitals failing to make a week and such as Paris none a single day. Only Warsaw suffered a major battle with the failed uprising. What made Budapest so bloody, even forcing Stalingrad into it's shadow was not the military deaths alone, but the civilian population were not able on the whole to get out of the city before it was encircled such was the propaganda and the residents ability to fool themselves. For this they paid dearly, 38,000 of them died, similar in number to the Hungarian and German military losers combined. Add the Russian 80,000 dead and you get a butchers bill of 160,000 dead. Whilst Stalingrad supplied a large number of German, Romanian and Italian prisoners Budapest supplied as a percentage and actual numbers far fewer. Of course if you look at how many of those prisoners from both battles survived to see home again Stalingrad would come out as the greatest cost in human life of any single campaign. This of course was not Ungvary's goal so this fact is ignored.

I point out these things not to lower the quality of his work but to put it into context, if you are like me and are aware of the bigger picture you could be put off the book early as he tries to manipulate the battles position to number one. The simple truth is that it was a dirty, bloody battle that even saw Hungarian troops switch sides and fight with the Russians, Civilians and even troops sabotage the defence in the hope of bringing the siege to an early end and the continued persecution of the Jews and politically unreliable (By the Arrow Cross) even as the siege was coming to an end. In fact the execution of the Jews was stepped up at the end, rather amazing as ammunition for the break out was in short supply and was a factor in how few were successful in breaking through the cordon around Budapest.

The book itself has lots of detail and uses many small events to get the reader into the conditions. Many times I felt myself asking why such and such would put up with what was happening and why at this late stage did so many Axis troops and commanders not take the easy way out. Part of this is explained by the fact that Hungarians hated the Russians and a large part of the German forces were both SS and in many cases ethnic Germans from what were Russian controlled states at the outbreak of the war on the Eastern Front and could expect (or receive) little mercy. If you are looking or something uplifting or glorious look elsewhere. This book deals with the gritty side of life in a siege, I found it difficult not to dislike the people sabotaging the defences such as steeling the dwindling supply of shells for the AT guns or whole Battalions dodging the fighting for the whole siege! Though curiously I had less trouble with Hungarians deserting to the Russians and then fighting against their former comrades.

A error in the pictures possibly a translation issue? The picture above was captioned as being a anti-tank gun when it clearly is a Panzershreck. Just struck me as funny.

Is the book worth reading? If you are into general WWII battles and campaigns possibly not. It's difficult to get your head round some of the names within the book and whilst he strives not to fall into the trap of each small section of the action sounding the same as the previous as most battles tend to be) it still has a feel of repetition though not excessively so. How ever if you have a keen interest in the east front, especially towards the end or want something different then yes this book is for you. Amazon.UK has this book in paperback for just over £8 at the moment with second hand copies under £5 so what are you waiting for?

Saturday, 11 August 2012

The Inevitable Spark Pimping Time

The Inevitable Spark blog is a fairly new blog, having started on my Birthday this year no less. To those who don't know, that's 18th March. Jonathan is an American who is into The Civil War in a big way. OK nothing unusual there I here you say, but I neglected to say which civil war. I mean the English Civil War, and just to be even more different the Scottish element of the ECW. He is currently building a 28mm Royalist Army under Montrose and will also build up the Covenanter version. Jonathan not only paints up some of the best figures and Standards that you will see in blog world he also supplies a rich background that for anyone interested in the period just can not afford to miss out on. He also looks to be doing a Punic War Project as well. Given he has many years of wargaming behind him I am sure he has a rather large collection he could yet show us. Based on what I have seen so far I am keen to see what else he has painted. I urge you all to go visit even if your not into ECW his tartan painting is a must see and he also has a small tutorial type thing going further into his blog.

Other news. I am working well into my secret project but this has been at the expense of all other painting so at the moment I have nothing I can show you. I expect to move back to the normal stuff in a few days though as I can't keep up the work I am doing all the time.