Winter War Kickstarter Wave 2 News and Arena Rex

I have had two lots of Kickstarter news this week but lets start with Winter War from Baker Company here is the bones of the email.

Hi everyone,

Just a quick note to say I have just packed up the last of the second wave parcels to be posted and couriered on Monday :)

So you should all have received them by the end of the week (or beginning of the following week for those further afield).

Please note, if you received a second wave early on with fewer items than recently advertised, don't worry, you will be first on the list to get the third wave where these will be included.

Third Wave and Bulk delivery

As mentioned in the comments a few days ago, the third wave and Bulk deliveries will be starting to go out in a weeks time once I have made a few more moulds and caught up a bit with casting. This will take a month or so at least to complete, but I will keep you all informed of the progress. Photos soon once I have recovered from completing the 2nd wave...

Lee received his last Friday so again has had his before me even though he ordered his a month after me. This does bother me a little, the sense of fairness seems to be the main reason. When it was the first lot and Lee had had his well over a month and I was still waiting I had notified Gavin. Actually I notified Gavin two or three times but to no avail, seems me agreeing to have mine taken to a show to save him postage was a big mistake, not least because most of us failed to get them due to a hitch at Baker Company. So yes I am disappointed that I again have been left to the last batch when I was further up the chain but it's really irrational as I have not touched wave one yet! 

I also know that other than a look at them and a quick post these will also be assigned to the wait for another day pile. Indeed they will only heap shame on my mountain in a section I have little expectation to get down the huge pile in the near future. Maybe keeping track is a bad idea LOL.

The other kickstarter is my Arena Rex from Red Republic Games. Famously late and until recently without a shipping date. Well the date is yet to be cast in stone but they are looking at September to October for the majority of the figures along with rules, tokens and dice. Just a couple of the more difficult and larger figures will be sent on at a later date. Looks like the whole of my set will be sent together and so I am expecting these in the October to November period and wincing at the customs hit I may take.

So two kickstarters both late but both looking to deliver, how have my views changed since first looking at kickstarter in general and these in particular? 

Arena Rex was the first I backed and I backed it as I went back to work when really I should not have as funds were still stretched. I admit that this did put the whole project under strain for me but I really liked the figures and wanted in. Unlike many kickstarters the stretch goals were not actually that good in comparison to others, indeed rather tight but that did not stop it achieving it's goal and beyond. It was disappointing that delays have made it now more than a year late and the updates stopped almost altogether at one point and I was ready to write it off as a bad experience. However whilst late it looks great, will the rules work well, I am not sure but if they don't work fully or suffer unbalanced gladiators then tweaking may sort this. I have high hopes on this and the figures look fantastic so if only for the joy of painting it will still be great. 

Winter War, Gavin has had far better coms and better reasons for his delay. Also the task was far greater than that or Red Republic's who gave reasons of moving house, new job and baby for the three guys making delays whilst Gavin had a long running problem with his casting machine.

Other than having delays the two could not be more different, Baker Company gave huge additions as stretch goals and I think he just got carried away with the giving. It was hugely successful raising many times more than the original goal and became a victim of it's own success. The time frame became impossible simply down to the amount of figures that needed sculpting due to the additional figures added to the pledges. Unfortunately sculpting was rushed and standards slipped so far below what is acceptable. Whilst Gavin has many supporters who will be positive about the project the truth is that too many of the figures are so badly sculptured as to be a real negative to the project. The vehicles are fantastic and some of the figures of wave two are much better but plenty are not. The net result will be that I will paint up some of these and offload all of them possibly keeping some of the vehicles. I plan to make back my money and walk away meaning we will not be wargaming the Winter War. Instead we will probably go with WWII in 28mm as the Winter War project has at least caught our attention.

So where am I with Kickstarters now? Actually this could be seen as a good record, backed two and receiving two. Both late as is very often the case, one will deliver what it promised the other less than was expected but still massive in quantity. 

Timing though is the key, if you want to see results soon it's going to disappoint. Mantic have a Dungeon Crawl up at the moment which I was tempted to back but have decided to walk away from. That would have a good chance to arrive when expected but I don't see that as a true kickstarter as most of the work is done. It's a glorified pre-order system and as such works very well.

Lack of immediacy kills that excitement from the projects first showing and whilst I look forward to the Gladiators I know it's now a back burner project. Since committing to buy these I have since started six new periods or scales some of which are small such as WWI Planes. Others are much larger such as the Saga and Cowboys as these will take a life of their own. Delivery will tell if this will jump back up the painting queue or be like the Winter War and still be in it's box months after delivery.

The more the items are conceptual the more likely you won't get what you expect. Gavin did show us some of the finished figures both painted and as castings, these were not great and I amongst others chose not to see them for what they were. I was blinded by what I wanted to see and many a kickstarter backer falls into that home made trap.

Yes I may well back other kickstarters but not now and not soon. I need to get done some of what I already have in the wings done first and really I don't need to look further ahead than where I am right now. I will be a little wiser in future (I hope) but don't feel I have had a bad experience from either project but would now be happy to have not backed either and actually if offered my money back on both would do so without a backward glance. That's not meaning they were bad choices but I could have made better ones.

Baker Company Kickstarter Arrives

My kickstrater figures arrived Monday but I was kind of busy so failed to blog about them but at least I have had the time to have a good look at them since. I was really pleased to finally get them and whilst later than originally expected consider that I am still waiting for the Arena Rex kickstarter to arrive which won't be any time soon and is a year late with no new date given. I think it is better to leave the date blank if they have no idea but at least they are now making updates more regular and I can see that progress is being made. 

Reports from Baker Company were far more regular and informative and I know I would have had my figures sooner if not for the loss of the casting machine. But that as they say is another story. What you want to know is what do I make of them?

I will start and end with the most positive, the tanks. Being at the end of the first round I am one of the ones rewarded with getting bits from phase two with phase one and one of these items is the T-26 which is a small tank compared with the mediums that were to follow but it's still a reasonable size. The detail and casting of the model is great and comes in five parts as the Turret Hatch can be left open or closed. It would be great if Gavin can be convinced to do a few flag waving dudes as these machines were radioless.

A later photo shows the track detail and another close up shows the rivet heads that must have made these an absolute joy to be inside, or not!!! I am no total tread head but I rate this kit very highly and look forward to getting it painted up and on the table. I have decided to keep most of my vehicles and just sell on the Finn stuff that Lee and I agree are extra to our needs. Between us we will have a great Russian swarm in tanks and other such vehicles.

Lead wise I have had a little over 100 or so figures though it does not look as much from the box they came in or the photo above. First imprecision was a little negative and it's easy to see the issues that have been raised. Sure these are no Black Tree or Artizan and the lack of defined detail that comes with greatcoated or snow smocked infantry adds to the overall look of being a little less than one hoped

How ever it is just as easy to miss the details that give these character, no not all of them as some are certainly on the weak side but others have things going for them. I will need to get some of these painted up just to see what I make of them. First thoughts was that they looked small for 28mm, and that was a surprise given that the main reason of their introduction was to replace Baker Company 25mm figures.

Well fear not as on pulling two random figures out of respective piles shows the BC (on the left) is actually slightly larger than the Russian on the right. Proportionally the BC figure looks out of sync with his right hand the size of a bucket!

Another Finn from another pack and as you can see he is a good size as well. A fair few of the figures are on small bases but that's OK as I will be mounting them on 2p pieces. They are also malleable allowing the poses to be changed a little in a few cases which will be nice.

Overall I am less happy than I had hoped on deciding to fund but not so that I wish I had not bothered. On the contrary I am happier than I expected to be and I think they will serve us well and I will probably back the following Balkan and Norwegian kickstarters as well.

Thrown in with the ordered items was this T-26 twin turreted tank which was really cool present from Gavin I assume for the delays and speaks volumes about his commitment. My main concern has been that this kickstarter has ended up costing him money rather than generated any and certainly his new kickstarter is not anywhere as generous even if it's still a good deal but more on this further on.

The T-26 twin MG comes with the two turrets mounted on a deck panel that will need some work to make it look correct but it looks well worth making the effort to do this well.

It's not just a straight swap out either as the two bodies of the tanks have a number of differences and as such are a great addition to the range. I really like what Gavin has managed to do with these and it makes the decision on backing another of his kickstarters easier.

Given that he has just launched one that's probably no bad thing, but this one is more or less just a vehicle one and as such it comes will steeper price points. The NEW KICKSTARTER has already raised £4,000 in it's first day and has just thirteen left to go. It has a nice array of vehicles, mostly trucks and works out for the most as £20 per vehicle. This is no bad price and in some cases the vehicles will come with crews. Time will tell if Gavin brings in more incentives beyond choice of vehicle though I do think he should also offer a larger pledge allowing you to buy more than six vehicles which is the largest commitment you can do at the moment. This would be particularly useful for groups of players but given that nine vehicles look to be available by the end you can't get one each of the vehicles without adding the extra's as add on's (though that is still £20 per vehicle.

Gavin is offering early bird incentives allowing you at the moment to get six vehicles for £105 not a bad opportunity at all.

Kickstarter Monday

It's kind of funny as both the Kickstarter's that I backed have reported updates on the same day for the last two updates. After I reported the points that both seemed to share in common they have since stated to show two rather different stories. 

Baker Company have for instance sent out around 160 parcels over last week and today and whilst still way behind schedule (still do not have their own casting machine back up and running) are working hard on getting as much out as possible and even have started work (externally) on the next Kickstarter, that being the Balkan's during WWII something that appeals to me and something I am likely to back again so as you can see my confidence is growing in this one.

Red Republic Games also are making progress but one month into their last extended deadline (1st Quarter of 2014 release) has now been replaced with no deadline offered. Simply they are unsure when they will be releasing their figures.

A quick look at the chart above will tell you why. 16 models are either in hand or in production. The other 20 are not, so given the time scale they have worked to this point it's fair to assume that the figures may not be ready in 2014!!! Seven of those twenty are at least at the caster for prototypes and if all goes well then may well be ready in this quarter. Only two more are advanced enough to possibly be done in this quarter but ten are Sculpt In Progress. I have see some of these and they look reasonably along the way but I doubt the figures, rules and other items have much chance of arriving before they are a year plus overdue. 

The good news is that I am more confident on this happening at some point than I was a couple of months ago. I don't mind waiting as it's not a project that is at the top of my list and was looking to be a bit of a distraction if it arrived around now. A distraction it will be as the figures look excellent and need to soak up a lot of tie to do them justice. I even think removing unrealistic release dates is a positive move, what worries me is that they may have thought the date was realistic. I at the time blogged that I would be surprised if they made first quarter and that I was so right about. The figures though are just lovely and when they do arrive will make a big splash.

Baker Company Kickstarter Update

Not unexpectedly Baker Company was not able to deliver all the Kickstarter first stage orders in November and it would have been a long shot to have got everyone their figures in December. All that became a mute point when the casting machine broke down last week and now all of us who are still to be supplied have been told to expect stage one and two to be delivered together in February. That's quite a pain as I had hoped to paint some during the early stages of the Challenge. It's still of course possible to paint some of these in the challenge as long as the new date is kept to.

I am not so worried with the delay, though I was going to use some of the money from selling some of these painted figures to fund further purchases. Not that I don't have plenty to be going on with but I had planned to go to York with a nice bundle to buy what I pleased. Well the good news (if your sick and twisted) is that I can't make York as I have to work that day. Yes the ONLY Sunday I have to work all year happens to be on the one day that show is on, someone somewhere hates me.

I originally agreed to pick up stage two at York, so I can hope both stages will be ready for Lee to pick up if he still ends up going. So not a total wash, though it's possible I won't get home till Thursday night meaning Lee will have had his figures five whole days longer than me!!

Baker Company Winter War has to a large extent been a casualty of it's own success. The offer was so good that it received orders far outside it's own expectations and ability to fulfil within the time frame quoted which remember was set before any orders were received. But it has been filling the orders, they have kept us all informed and feedback from those lucky fellows who have received there's has on the whole been positive. So I am not worried about my order, just disappointed not to have already received my figures.

As for the Arena Rex, well I obviously still want them but right now I know they would be sidelined until post March so not bothered if they do not arrive till post challenge.

However, I am concerned. The figures are still very slow moving from design to greens and the current rate V figures to be sculptured would mean 2014 is unlikely to see the project through. Meanwhile it's more than a little likely that the money in hand will continue to drain away until they don't have enough to supply the promised figures even if they do have the moulds ready to go. It's very possible this was money thrown away and that does bother me, especially as it's possible I influenced others to back the kickstarter as well.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying it's doomed to failure but I rate it red for delivery and orange for failing to launch. It's three months late already and one update every 6-8 weeks tells me they either have nothing good to say or have lost interest in pushing the project through.

Experiences of Kickstarters and a lot of Coincidences.

I backed my first Kickstarter almost six months ago today, this being Red Republic's Arena Rex and more recently I also threw money in the direction of Baker Company for their Winter War.

By some strange coincidence I backed both to the value of £120 each. The castings of Arena Rex are excellent, I already have one figure given to me by AR and the other figures they have shown are also fantastic. Though they should be given the cost of each figure. By comparison I think the Winter War figures I have seen so far look OK they are not to the finish of the AR figures but then not only do they not need to be but indeed the fact most of them are wrapped up for winter makes it impossible to try and match the two against each other even without mentioning the difference in scale and material.

Another coincidence happens to be release date, both have been chalked up for November, yes even the WW that only finished Oct 8th has set the following month as when products will start to ship. In fact Baker Company have already started to ship the low level pledges.

From here on in though they have started to diverge and share less and less in common. The biggest difference seems to be direct communication. Since I pledged to WW I have had more updates than I have had for AR, not that I needed many a update but AR seem to go into periods of silence which was explained away to an extent last week when I received notice that shipment will be delayed till some time in the first quarter of next year. Fortunately for me it's not so big a deal as I have plenty to keep me active and through the year I tend to paint about the same speed but for some I imagine the delay and the start of end of painting season will be a double blow. The reasons for the delay is that two of the partners have started new jobs whilst the third has had a baby (well their partner has) so their lives are under a lot of disruption. I think the level of success has had a big effect on the time line. Still a possible 33% increase on release time must have been on the horizon for some time, I think waiting till the month before release to extend the time line was not a smart move, worse still they were not saying the release WILL be by March, the door is open for a longer delay. The good news though is that a good chunk of the figures are either now ready or working towards it.

On the other hand Baker Company have a good chunk of the first wave of their figures all ready and have stated the first wave will be going out next month in order of subscriptions so I hope that I will get my first Russians and Finns before the first snows fall. The second and final wave will be with us sometime in March so it's possible I could have all the WW figures and vehicles before I get any from Red Republic. Again it's not an issue, more a highlight on how great Baker Company seem to be. They are also advertising their next date for a Kickstarter, this being April, just after we all should have our lead. The subject is still up in the air as they allowed backers to vote on which will be next. I am glad my birthday is in March!

Another reason Baker Company have a good reason to get their product out on time is that Warlord Games are intending to release their own Finnish infantry and a module for Axis Allies including the Finns also in November (mid to late) with a price ticket of £29.50 for 21 figures. Sure makes the WW kickdstarter seem an excellent deal. The £60 for one Finn Rifle Platoon ended up supplying over 120 figures, a HMG, a large mortar, an AT Gun, an artillery gun, Field Kitchen, AA Truck and a very cool Areosan. Warlord give you 5 sky mounted infantry whilst I get ten so the same amount with a double purchase of the Warlord pack to spend the same value.

Not that it stops here. I am also getting ten guys on bikes and six on horseback, though these are included in the 120 figures. So for my £120 I will have over 240 figures and a lot of vehicles including two AA Trucks and two Aerosan's a T26 and a BA armoured car. I think Warlord must have been cursing as the Winter War kickstarter gained momentum. But on the bright side both Chain f Command and Boltaction now support the period and scale these figures cover. I see a lot of future for this period of warfare.

Winterwar Kickstarter

I guess I should thank Mike over at Trouble at Mill for this though at the same time maybe I should curse him. He got me interested in my second Kickstarter Project this one being 28mm Winter War, you know the one before WWII got going where the Russians git a right royal kicking by the much smaller Finnish army. Not sure how the rules will handle the required Russian bull at a gate attitude to make this work historically though Mike is very into Chain of Command and I hope he can keep the rest of us interested.

So I went for the £60 per side option having just been handed some free money rather unexpectedly and this is what I will get, yes I will get all of the following.

Also the Field Kitchen has also been unlocked, I mean a FIELD KITCHEN how can you resist that?!!!!

So for £60 you get all of the items for one force, so the Russians have a base of 44 figures THEN add all the items on the right including the T-26 Light Tank and B-10 armoured car. In fact the Russian gets over 100 figures! a large mortar, HMG and even a Artillery gun. Yes you really do get all of that, not to mention free postage to ANYWHERE in the world!!!!

The first figures are expected to be supplied sometime in November which is in fact most of them and the rest plus the vehicles expected in the first quarter of 2014. Further stretch goals which will be also free add ons are Twin MG turrets for the T-26 for the Russian. Followed by, AA Truck for each side (if you go £120 like me that's one Russian and one Finnish. Last up would be a very cool Aerosan with crew for both sides, which means on the £120 pledge two Aerosan with two crews.

So far £31,000 has been raised with £40,000 required to hit the last free add on. After that all the add on's cost extra money. The kickstarter ends in seven days time but I suspect it will have a late surge as more jump in to take advantage of such a good offer. Lee who originally dismissed it as he has enough 28mm to sink any ship and has zero interest in 28mm WWII suddenly got the big eyes for the project and I guess I may have had something to do with that

Arena Rex Kickstarter Launched

Yesterday Red Republic Games launched Arena Rex Kickstarter project that has caught my attention. It is based on Gladiatorial combat but mixes a little bit of fantasy with history. This of course will immediately turn away some from the project and for me sends up a few warning flags. Handled right and it's going to add to the game not detract, too heavy and balance and believability can be lost. To this point only the one figure has been sculpted to my knowledge and six have been given away in recent giveaways that Arena Rex have used to try and increase interest in their new venture. Well it seems to have worked given that in about 24 hours they have already secured $26,444 and have a further 36 days to go.

The figures are 35mm and cast in resin, this combination means a higher price than your standard 28mm metal historical figure but the first finished model I can attest to looking gorgeous. Standard figures are expected to retail at $23 but can be bought through pledges at $17 so a fair saving. 218 people obviously think it's a good offer and are already pledged. I am still on the fence a little right now, I need to know that at least one other local opponent will also go for these to make it worth while. The good news is that you don't need many figures to play, indeed I am sure you could just use normal figures but I feel you would loose some of the atmosphere. So far not a great deal has been released about the game but it has a presence on Facebook as well so more should flow as time goes on. What I gather from watching the video is that the actual combat system is as they say streamlined but detailed. 

Not that all you get is a selection of miniatures at $17 each. If for instance you back this at the $55 level you get to pick three mini's from the basic level plus five favour dice, a token per figure, game cards and a printed rule book. But you will also get a PDFS of the Playtest rules allowing you to not only see the rules before release but give feedback. Already someone has suggested a thumbs up/down die for the campaign rules which they have mocked up. They are close to unlocking the next stretch goal, yet another figure and it's for this that they seem to be needing the kickstarter the most. The more money they raise the more of the proposed figures can be sent for sculpting. 

So take a look if this sort of thing interests you and maybe, just maybe meet you in the arena.